Narc out your friends

Going to school stoned probably means you don’t learn as much as if you weren’t stoned.

But having the cops band together with principals create an organized narc effort is just plain stupid.

First, if you are a narc, you will be ostracized (or at least you should be).

Secondly, if you are narc’d out, the wrath of the school and law the will rain down upon you, but little else about your life will change for the better, and none of the aspects of school that lend themselves to experiencing stoned will change.

School is, on balance, prison like or worse for a good collection of kids. If drugs provide a way out of this, or a way around, I would much rather see a solution based on changing school for the better rather than creating a culture of distrust and suspicion. Which just makes school worse.

Have we learned nothing?

Comments

Ken's picture
Ken on January 10, 2003 - 02:34

Trust Authority. What matter students privacy when they need saving from becoming drug addicts?
Save that stoner now! Tell the teacher so they can win him back and make him a good sheep.
The teachers should be offered cash as well to report on each other — call 222-TIPS, tell them Mr. Skinner is on crack.

Wayne's picture
Wayne on January 10, 2003 - 13:04

Students use drugs because (A)their parents beat them, (B)they were not given everything they ever asked for when younger(C)the teacher did not give them an A for the 1000 “and stuff” words in their term paper. More of the “poor me, victim” stuff that kids (and now as grown-ups)use an an excuse for everything, including stupid drug use. “Just say no!” Period! Police must get the drugs out of schools, no matter how. Moncton had a drug-fogged rash of student suicides before police and school administrators were able to break the ring of idiocicy, with the help of students who were worried about their classmates.Many families were saved the agony of finding their child from hanging from a basketball hoop because police were able to seize drugs and get help to the students whose minds were snapped under the influence. Whatever it takes, get drugs out of the schools, away from our kids.

Ritchie Simpson's picture
Ritchie Simpson on January 10, 2003 - 14:14

As the song says ” Birth, school, work, death” further news bit this morning attests to the prescription of Prozac for children in the US. Kids are smart enough to recognize hypocrisy when they see it. Some of them will surely fall prey to it, its an easy trap. Unfortunately there is no easy or absolute answer when dealing with the human condition; there will always be the lucky, intelligent, focussed and improbably sucessful and there will always be their counterparts the unlucky, scatterbrained, challenged and failed. The answers, maybe unfortunatley, are vague and require time and much faith, but we must learn to focus our children on the positive and offer support and to the those that seek solace for their cynicism rather than face up to it.

Rob's picture
Rob on January 10, 2003 - 14:41

Does your silly logic apply equally to adults who use drugs, who were once students who used drugs? My parents never beat me. There’s nothing funny about kids hanging themselves but they don’t do it because they smoked a joint with their buddies at lunch.

Ken's picture
Ken on January 10, 2003 - 15:53

Never beaten, got almost everything I asked for, got A’s if I wanted A’s — smoked pot almost every day of high school.
My boredom in a small northern town and the realization I did not want to fit into school, cubicle, consumer life were some of my motivations. An improv group may have changed that. Or a girlfriend. I craved escape.
In the land of boredom the stoned man is king.

Wayne's picture
Wayne on January 10, 2003 - 16:06

There is no such thing as a harmless little joint. Would you remain silent if a friend was bulemic? Should we encourage students to come forward with a tip about the next Columbine? What if a fashionable bootlegger moved into the house next door? My point is, we all have social responsibility to make the world we live in better. Would you like to live in a community where you were just another face to be ignored, even in times of need? Of course we need to look out for each other! And, in my opinion, Ken, there is nothing silly about my view on drugs. You may be able to fool yourself into believing a joint at lunch is ok, but not me. One joint at lunch is two, then hash, then pills then needle marks. Either you are for all drug use, or you are against it!! Drugs are evil! (Thanks, Mr. Frum)

Wayne's picture
Wayne on January 10, 2003 - 16:13

Ken, Rob, whatever!!!(Another student word-count filler-upper!)

Alan's picture
Alan on January 10, 2003 - 17:12

Sorry, Wayne, but how is dope they “evil”? Could you actually point to a report of a joint induced suicide? Other drugs maybe but not marajuana. Other factors present maybe. When I practiced in young offenders and child protection law I never saw dope based problems — I saw kids in trouble with jerk parents, parents who needed mental health care or (most common of all) parents who ruined families through debt, but never the Nancy Regan “Just Say No” nightmare. In fact, most Ontario provincial prisons were openly full of dope — best way to keep a now overcrowded jail built in 1840 calm. The kind of cheap solution that fit the Harris government. What kills me is the police saying that decriminalizing doesn’t mean anything — it does. It means we are recognizing the law is loonie. Five or ten years from now when it is sold at Liquor Stores [as Roger Grimes of Newfoundland would have it sold now] the real problems of criminalization will be solved — forced acquisition through organized crime, guaranteed funding of organized crime, unregulated youth use, loss of tax dollars and bad quality. The whole “twice as strong now” thing is crap as well. The selection available in small town NS twenty years ago ranged from mild homegrown to BC buds. Fortunately, those who would maintain support for organized crime are now in the minority, the law will be changed and legalization will occur.

Wayne's picture
Wayne on January 10, 2003 - 17:53

God help us all, Alan…All for the almighty tax dollar, we send our kids down the path. My point is marajuana is an entry drug, kinda like candy cigarettes…remember those?
Have a problem fitting in? Bored? Unchallenged? Parents who just don’t understand why you really need that third stud in your tongue, or what Eminem’s real message is? Just turn to drugs, that will solve everything. Live like Hitler did in his bunker…doped out of reality and able to fuel his allusions of grandeur, and ability to blame anybody/everybody for his failures and twisted view on life.And when you smash your daddy’s car while doped up,blame it all on somebody else, and how you were a victim. Lawyers love victims, right? So what if you kill a few, or yourself. The drugs made you do it.
It all sounds to me like an easy solution. I have been to the Netherlands, and seen what they have done. Wrong!

Ritchie Simpson's picture
Ritchie Simpson on January 10, 2003 - 18:14

Geez Wayne Relax! An attitude like yours is a lot scarier than a 16 year old with one too many beers or whacked on a couple of joints. A lot of us have been there and are no worse the wear; like all risks in life success comes from managing them not burying them.

Wayne's picture
Wayne on January 10, 2003 - 18:57

Those having children with (or having had) a drug problem will understand. I have no problem with beer, I might add. I have even had a few,myself. Guinness and a pub in St.Andrews, Scotland are part of my fondest memories.

Ken's picture
Ken on January 10, 2003 - 19:08

The Netherlands drug use is half that of the US.
Perhaps it is European culture you don’t like. Paris streets are covered in dog crap, Germans show naked women on prime time TV and they all have BO. But god love them they can make beautiful cheese. Not Cheez-whiz man, Gouda, Limburger and Brie!
Wayne, please don’t make me out to be a victim — that’s your take on it not mine.
Did I mention the Dutch smoke half as much weed as Americans?
http://www.rnw.nl/society/html…

Alan's picture
Alan on January 10, 2003 - 19:12

I lived in the Netherlands and saw one of the most liberal, caring societies in the world. The kind of place where people are openly allowed to be themselves as long as their neighbour is not hurt. You must have stuck to the YapYum district if you saw otherwise;-). Wayne, booze is a far more dangerous drug in PEI than dope. I just wish the LC here ran don’t drink and drive ads like every other province. They realize it would cut into the rye sales so they don’t. As a result, the cops don’t enforce it and people die in PEI in illegal bars and in the euphamistically reported “single car accidents early Sunday morning”. Dead. Tobacco is a far more dangerous smoke than marijuana but the gutless powers that be run only “take it outside ads”. I am having to tell my 4 year old that, no, taking it outside is not good enough — smoking kills and is for morons / addicts [sorry double “L” and double “G”;-)]. Dead. Hard drugs, though not widespread here, are more dangerous but they are more difficult to go after because you are dealing with Hells Angels rather then grade eleven kids. If you want to stop the gateways, then don’t be a hypocrite — ban alcohol, rock music, model airplane making and hamburgers cause they are all “gateways” to dope. Frig, patronage is more corrosive and illegal under the criminal code but not pursued by the police. Fortunately, co-oping the schools will fail as they become state agents under a plan and use of the principal’s powers for powers outside of the education act and under the criminal code require the respect of the Charter, a guaranteed trip up for ill-informed, untrained “secret agents”. Most interesting is the recongition that the criminal code provisions in relation to marijuana are themselves invalid at the moment due to an Ont. C.A. ruling, the second highest court in the land. The local police are in fact upping enforcement of a law they know is unconstitutional. So who is doing what to respect the law in all this?

Wayne's picture
Wayne on January 10, 2003 - 19:43

What was that saying about lies and statistics again?

Model airplane making…? I never suspected such a thing! But, if it’s gotta go to keep kids away from drugs, I am all for it! And I think women with hairy armpits should be banned,as well! Aside from the waiters, I love Europe.

Embrace what is right to do over what is easier to do. Kids need guidence and a good example, and I am not talking about Charles Barkley and Wynona here. It is easier to say, sure, go ahead and do drugs, it’s ok as long as the Hells Angels are not making money.Where do we draw the line, how to we really know when Live and let Live is no longer acceptable. Will it take 2 deaths, 4 plane crashes from heroin addicted pilots? How many? If the police are upping enforcement, great! Bring it on!

Wayne's picture
Wayne on January 10, 2003 - 20:03

Alan, most of my time there was spent in Commonwealth War Grave cemeteries visiting lost relatives from Canada’s Dutch liberation campaign, and they do love Canucks there. Holten was my main base.I never visited Yuk-Yuk’s or Yap-Yum.While their liberal drug attitudes have done alot for tourism, as has the sex trade, at what cost to their culture and self-esteem. I did not encounter alot of pride in this isue there, and feel they are a poor example to the rest of the world. They have paid a price unacceptable to my morals and beliefs. But, you are right, they are good people.

Rob's picture
Rob on January 10, 2003 - 20:21

In the words of Newman, “Ohhh… the humanity!!”. Listening to some arguments is like running over a barrel of paint thinner and exploding into flames — shocking and unbearable.

Ken's picture
Ken on January 10, 2003 - 20:28

I wish they would criminalize winter.

Rob's picture
Rob on January 10, 2003 - 20:40

Students are more leery of bringing what drugs they have into the school. A little bit of paranoia is a good thing,” says Killoran.
Yuk Yuk!!!

Wayne's picture
Wayne on January 10, 2003 - 20:51

Rob, try taking a pill! :)

Alan's picture
Alan on January 10, 2003 - 20:57

Wayne, I was treated like a king by my older co-workers in Holland for being Canadian — us and the Poles who also liberated them in the form of a UK brigade of expats. If your understanding of the liberal democratic tradition of the oldest democracy in Europe goes no farther than sex and drugs how can we take seriously your position on the role of police in this democracy?

Wayne's picture
Wayne on January 10, 2003 - 21:07

Perhaps you misunderstand my understanding of the aforementioned democracy (far too liberal,I might add)due to the limits of the debate as outlined in our thread title….?(Watch for hooks, Alan). As far as this democracy, (Far too many Liberals, I might add, which is threatening the democratic process here), I take no subject more serious then drug abuse.

Alan's picture
Alan on January 10, 2003 - 21:14

You are lucky to live in a liberal democracy as you are allowed to be conservative within it. Where liberality is not present, folks with strong opinions of any type run the danger of being tripped up by the authorities. As drug abuse, especially marijuana, is such a minor problem in our country, other more important ills miss the benefit of your conviction.

Ken's picture
Ken on January 10, 2003 - 21:33

Well put Alan.
One of those important problems is privacy, such as not being spied on by your classmates.

Wayne's picture
Wayne on January 10, 2003 - 21:36

Again, tell that to a grieving parent in Dieppe, a wife whose husband in Montreal was shot over drug money. Or many others devastated by drug use/abuse in Canada. If Grimes has his way and legalizes drugs, the NFLD economy will grow with increased tourism, but their society will dissolve in a heap of roaches, needles and burnt spoons. (“The Rock” will have a different meaning)Drug abuse is not a minor problem in our society, and if it takes snitches to get rid of drugs in our schools, (as it sometimes does to get rid of bullies)I think it is great. They atta get medals, too! And the memory of my dead uncles in Europe remind me of how lucky I am to live in a democracy here.

Ken's picture
Ken on January 10, 2003 - 22:15

Ya, I get what you’re saying Wayne: Drugs are bad and cause roaches (pun intended).
Hot tempers, greed, mistrust and alcohol also cause murder. The bag of weed didn’t pull the trigger. The guy who pulled the trigger may not even clearly know why he did it. Power, control, abuse and victimization also happen in complete sobriety — sometimes more so (Catholic Church) because of inhibitions.
Amongst people I know weed leads to stained glass, carpentry, and building model airplanes.

Wayne's picture
Wayne on January 10, 2003 - 22:33

Ken, are you a member of the NRA? Or seen one of their commercials lately? That logic would put a gun in the hands of all airline passengers as they board an aircraft. The old “Its not the gun, it’s the person holding it” trick. (Remember “Get Smart”?) We all need to get smart and stop thinking we can trust our youth to make the proper decisions about something that carries far more risk then Ritchie believes.(See above)What increases hot tempers, greed, mistrust? Drugs.

It is all about acceptable behavior, really. And drugs, especially in school, is just not acceptable, just as guns in school, suicide, and a lot of other issues that put youth at risk. And, they all are something needs to be “snitched ” on.

Acceptable behavior!

And your friends really do sound like nice people. I suspect the dope has nothing to do with that!

Alan's picture
Alan on January 10, 2003 - 22:43

[Whistle blows] Weekend! Good one Wayne. Tee up another topic for Monday, Peter, and we’ll do our Point / Counterpoint impersonation next week.

Wayne's picture
Wayne on January 10, 2003 - 22:46

Cheers!

Joey Brieno's picture
Joey Brieno on January 11, 2003 - 15:59

Hey, if it was about health they’d criminalize cigarettes — unless they wish to continue the hypocricy that most of this stuff is based on. The issue really comes down to this: there is no leadership. Pot would have stopped destroying thousands of lives — years ago — had someone only looked at the vague truth hiding behind all the stats; that truth it seems would say that pot is an “entry” drug only because of where one has to go to get it (sees other drugs… gets a friendly smile and “you should try this” Seriously, I’m over 40 — a friend said to me the other day (delightlful fellow too) “you’ve never done acid?… geesh, next time you’re in T.O. come stay with me and we’ll show you what it’s all about…” He’s a good friend but I’m not going to pop some ‘cid for fun… but, ~if~ I had been a pot smoker when I was 16 would I have tried it — perhaps, if it was offerd. And so “peer pressure” (if you can call it that, it was more like a recomendation for a vacation spot than a ‘c-mon-scared?, type of thing) can continue for a long time. Take pot away from the crooks and take it away from the gangs, and guess what, it’ll start to disappear from the schools — never totally — but surely. Decriminalization is the minimum, flat out legalization is better; take the money saved (new taxes, less spending on the WODrugs) and put it into creative programs for kids to distract their furtile minds into doing good stuff.

dave moses's picture
dave moses on January 11, 2003 - 18:00

wow, i just got wind of this wild thread. with all due respect to wayne, we must and will legalise marajuana. the scarey part is that the world will be hardly different at all than it is now, we’ll just have a little more control, a little more tax money, a little less crime and a little more jimi.

Wayne's picture
Wayne on January 12, 2003 - 14:02

Joey, the simple response is you are to old to know it all!

Wayne's picture
Wayne on January 12, 2003 - 15:15

It will be just like cigarettes…the tax goes right back to ant-smoking programs, right? Yah, sure! Watch govennments get addicted to any drug tax, just like gambling, and soon they will promote drug use, just like alchol and 6-49.

And if smoking is not criminal, why do so many people smoke? With your reasoning, Joey, smoking cigatettes should be a thing of the past, as it is not a criminal act, and therefore not appealing. We should go after the dealers a lot harder, and not give up the struggle to show kids what the right thing is to do, and to be accountable for their actions.

Joey Brieno's picture
Joey Brieno on January 13, 2003 - 15:09

Silly stuff but here goes: “…why do so many people smoke?” Anyone who’s ever smoked knows the answer… cuz it’s addictive [stpd!]. Now, how’z about going back and reading the stuff you’re reacting to … the numbers would suggest that more high school kids use pot than tobacco. If pot was not fueling the engine of organized crime perhaps it wouldn’t be a funding agency for prostitution and real nasty drugs (drugs at least as nasty as booze). Even if pot is as destructive for the person as booze (which all indications would suggest it most certainly is not) one thing does remain abundantly clear and that is that pot rarely leads to violence and death (if ever) whereas booze tops the list in that category (plus it literally shrinks the brain and flabbs the heart) with cocaine coming in a close second. Then there’s prescription drugs, a few other ‘streeters’ and then somewhere near the bottom is every fundamentalists Public Enemy #1, good ol’ marij. I think it’s the calvinist foundation which makes people rail against pot (as I did for 20 years) “nothing pleasant can be good!”, and if it brings any form of pleasure — short of the kind of pleasure one feels when he removes his hair shirt for the first time in 10 years — then it has to be immoral. Anyway, Wayne, there are many arguments to make on your side of this issue — I know I made them thousands of times — but misinterpreting the musings of someone on a web-log and using that as a foundation for your position is not gonna fly around here… perhaps you haven’t noticed, most folk who drop by here are what we’d call literate with some really decent critical analysis skills.

Ken's picture
Ken on January 13, 2003 - 16:10

From todays Globe & Mail:
And please don’t say, “Why add one more problem to the list we’re already dealing with?” As if all the disturbed, angry and addictive personalities out there are holding back, biding their time in whist circles and sewing bees, but that when marijuana is legalized they’re going to start getting into real trouble.

Wayne's picture
Wayne on January 13, 2003 - 18:11

Here are some points from “The Pony Express”, the National Publication of the RCMP…
“A 1998 report by the Canadian Center of Substance Abuse estimated 7% of Canadians 15 and older use Cannabis regularly. The Risk of becoming dependent on cannabis increases with use” says Richard Garlick of the Center. He estimates one-third to one-half of those who use cannabis daily for extended periods become dependent and studies show the associated risks include respiratory damage, impairment of physical coordination, problems with memory, and a potential link and psychiatric disorders, including schizophrenia, imparing a persons ability to learn, and decreasing motivation.
This is, potentially a big problem for youth in Canada. “The academic world is so competative these days and young people are at a cruical time in their lives where learning is very important, and have the most to lose.”“

Alan's picture
Alan on January 13, 2003 - 18:21

Just on the stats, I find the 7% very low. If 660,000 have the record that is 2.2% of 30 million Canadians. In no way do the police get a conviction for 32% of a regular activity like dope smoking. Also, even if all these bad things happen, especially to teens, we do not regulate social matters and health matters through the criminal code.

Wayne's picture
Wayne on January 13, 2003 - 18:59

Alan, please clarify for me…will those who refuse to butt out in restaurants not be risking a criminal record? Have we not taken steps to legislate the use of bicycle helmets in PEI? Are these not social AND health matters?

Alan's picture
Alan on January 13, 2003 - 19:41

These are not examples of criminal laws, Wayne, but other forms of less intrusive and less serious regulation by law. While many books argue this point, criminalization should only by used for wrongs against the state as a whole rather than individuals — other lower laws do that job. So, smoking is a provicial or municipal law as are bike helmets. You do not get jail time for these sorts of convitions and you don’t have jury trials. If it is decriminalized but still regulated, it will be covered by the food and drug act. If it is decriminalized and reduced in regulatory seriousness, Roger Grimes of Newfoundland may have his way and it could be sold in the Liquor Commissions of each province.

Justin O'Brien's picture
Justin O'Brien on January 14, 2003 - 04:37

I do believe, Wayne, that your membership in the Canadian Anarchists Guild Elite is being revoked effective immediately. Legislation enforcing seat-belts and helmets is what’s wrong with letting the lawmakers take over for our parents. If they legislate enough against stupidity, they’ll legislate themselves right out of existence. Buuut, I agree with you. Keep pot illegal. Make smokes illegal too. If I want to ruin my brain, I’d like to do it in my car or on my bike; not getting hit by a KenWorth because I was too busy lighting up while crossing the street.

Joey Brieno's picture
Joey Brieno on January 15, 2003 - 22:21

You guys are all stoned right? And I’ll bet, Moses, that Wayne’s got the best “jimi” in town.

Mae's picture
Mae on February 25, 2003 - 17:27

Well when I stumbled apon this site I was very unset to find out that people can NARK on their friends and stoop that low. When you nark on someone that just ruins a person if you cared about a person that much then you help them quit, you don’t help them by getting them on probation and shit. Thats what ruins a person not helps them. If your about to nark a friend out them then be prepared to loose a friend.

ReZzA's picture
ReZzA on June 4, 2003 - 05:28

oh my god wayne…. shit man, chill. sounds like u need a cone…… ha! I’m sick of this crap of people hating on weed. Shit. God put it here on this earth for people to smoke. EVERYONE has the right to their own life!!!!! Im 18, my parents are the best and have NO IDEA that i smoke weed, but i have for the past 5 years, 3 years of that is everyday… I do no crazy shit. Kids that commit suicide arent doing it coz they smoke weed, they’re doing it coz obviously they got problems, ….maybe REALLY PSYCHO ONE MINDED PARENTS OR SUMTHING…..NAMED WAYNE
I would understand completely if u were talking about crack or sumthing of that sort but not sweet old mary jane ok.

junior's picture
junior on June 7, 2003 - 20:12

first of all narcs are terrible. What is thepoint in going out and telling on someone for smoking. Is it because thts what society wants. Then you must describe society. To me society is nothing but alot of people who are uppr class and have no idea about what truly is going on ,thats my personal opinion onsociety. If you hve no dea what the “drug” does to you thn how can you even comment on it. Its not like you go out get high and want to go out and act crazy ando stupid things. Thats more like the drunks you see walking around trying to figh all te time or in car accidents all the time. The articles i read just really pissed meof an wanted to voice my opinion

John's picture
John on November 26, 2003 - 20:55

Wayne is a moron

Anthony's picture
Anthony on May 3, 2004 - 21:03

I’ve smoked before plenty of times and my GPA was a 3.2 Smoking pot does not cause you not to learn it’s the person and his/her want to learn that affects the way you learn oh yeah wayne is a moron. Why can’t we all just drop this whole masqarade of lies and deciet created by the man and his blind sheep that think we need him when in fact we actually don’t we could all live peacefully without laws or a goverment telling us what to do and how to live and what to buy and what to smoke and whats good for us, so start the revolution, sit back relax and smoke some pot.

Dave's picture
Dave on July 25, 2005 - 05:10

Anthony, you’ve got it figured out — but you know that. That revolution has to start with this generation. If it doesn’t, we will see the final collapse after another great war. Instead we should all live as one, without borders, without money, without government etc. And if everyone has to smoke a few natural herbs to see this clear vision than so be it. So lets start it, we don’t really have a choice. It is time for utopia…clear the wheat fields and starting planting herbs.

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